Official IN THE GROOVE Thread - New arcade dancing game!

rampage · Administrator Joined: 24 Jan 2002 Location: Redmond, WA

Great. It's doomed.

SuPa |LÂ©| · Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2003 11:16 am Post subject:

Paranoia_Survivor · Trick Member Joined: 20 Sep 2003

Personaly, I don't think it's going to sell. Graphics look HORIBLE compared to DDR and PIU. Also 40 song's is too little. And 2 minutes might be too long if you are doing songs that are as hard as MAX 300 (like they will have hard songs

). And all we know is that the songs are american type (probly they will be cruddy songs).
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SaeNoDa · Trick Member Joined: 04 Mar 2002

Syxx · Trick Member Joined: 20 Feb 2003 Location: Chicagoland

OMG

Do you have to defend the game EVERY TIME SOMEONE SAYS SOMETHING NEGATIVE ABOUT IT???

OMG YOU SPELLED SOMETHING WRONG SO YOU CAN'T SAY THIS GAME SUCKS!!!!!

If the graphics look HORRIBLE RIGHT NOW, then that's what he's commenting on. He's not commenting on the the graphics of the final version. If the final version isn't even out, how do you know they're not going to "suck" in this guys opinion then too?

Do you think that something like this wasn't going to get any bad comments and that everyone is just gonna wuv your little DDR sim?
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whites

Sharpay Evans · Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2003 3:11 pm Post subject:

lol that was hella funny Syxx
to Sae...arent you guys worried about getting sued?

Edit:sorry ahead of time if someone asked this question

SaeNoDa · Trick Member Joined: 04 Mar 2002

OMG

I've posted a whopping four times in this thread, so stfu. I believe you've posted more than I have in it. geezus.

I don't even have any personal involvement with this game, I just want to support other music games when DDR goes away. I don't know WHEN it will, but it will someday and I'm trying to help perpetuate with POSITIVITY NOT NEGATIVITY.

AS with any thread, if you restate comments that were made previously, people tend to get a bit peeved because they didn't go through the thread and read it (which is the essence of a message board, yes?) which is what you're supposed to do when you're responding to something?

OF course I wasn't expecting everyone to love it, but when someone says they hate it before they've played it or seen it, it's called ignorance, OK? My goal in this thread was to raise awareness and to get ideas to make this a better game. It MAY suck now, but with constructive criticism, it could be a lot better.

IF IT SUCKS, WHY DOES IT SUCK? "derrr, it has american songs, it must suck." "derrr, it looks like it's too easy... it must suck."

I don't know why I even try on this BBS anymore.
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Remy · Trick Member Joined: 24 Jan 2002 Location: Astoria, NY

rampage · Administrator Joined: 24 Jan 2002 Location: Redmond, WA

Yes, someone needs to address the very real possibility that Konami will file suit if this game ever goes into production.

It's using a DDR cabinet, that in itself won't make people at Konami very happy. However, I doubt they would have any recourse for saying "don't use our cabinet for other things." However, by using their cabinet and by its design, it is in effect a blatant copy of DDR. You have a music game with UDLR steps. Konami pretty much has that formula trademarked and likely patented and I doubt they would take kindly to another company selling knock-offs of their product - using their hardware no less. They could easily argue patent infringement and consumer confusion and if that went to court, they would most certainly win.

Now, what about the music? It has been said that much of the music that's used has been retrieved from web sites for free use. Does that include generating profit from these songs? What about public exhibition? MP3.com for one, which has free music downloads strictly forbids using the music for generating profit or public exhibition. If you're using music from these web sites, you better make sure you have contracts with them so *they* don't file suit along with the artists.

Don't get me wrong, I applaud the effort to continue the legacy of music gaming. However, it also sounds like many of the legal aspects have not been well thought out.

SaeNoDa · Trick Member Joined: 04 Mar 2002

Sorry, i didn't realize how much I had posted in this thread so that was my bad, I apologize.

As far as the legal considerations, I have absolutely no ties to this game professionally, I'm just trying to put the word out there.

Supposedly, the folks at Roxor Games have met with their lawyers in order to settle ANY issues that would involve a lawsuit.

I do know that Konami no longer has an arcade division in the United States. Most DDR cabinets in the US are illegal anyways because they're japanese. I do know that things used for entertainment can be imitated so long as there is a significant enough change to the new version.

In this case, they have longer songs, different scrolling arrows, totally different songs, colors, completely different UI, it is developed in a country where the original makers no longer have an arcade division, and the arrows also scroll in reverse by default. I'm not sure if that is even considered enough of a difference, but the guys at Roxor SAY that they're in the clear of legal issues.

it would suck if it did get stopped because of all the work that has gone into it thus far.

I have no idea about stepmania. Chris, the dev, posts on this BBS occasionally... maybe he'll see this thread and come around.

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Paranoia_Survivor · Trick Member Joined: 20 Sep 2003

SaeNoDa · Trick Member Joined: 04 Mar 2002

Paranoia:
I'm sorry that I jumped down your throat. It wasn't so much that the reply was focused towards you, but kind of everyone. I'm just afraid that everyone will discount something cool without even trying it.

That's all. Sorry again.
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Dark Hogosha · Trick Member Joined: 12 Feb 2002 Location: Dubuque, Iowa

One could compare this game to the first mix of DDR and be blown away. Unfortunately, you can't do that...not with mixes like 5th and Extreme out. If the game can start with, say, 60 songs at least (since all will be new), that's a good start.

My review of what I've seen and heard so far:

Pros:

-- American-style songlist. One of the things that will draw people into it over on this side of the puddle is familiarity with the musical style. Sure, one could see this as a con (for example, the people who have been clammoring for Butterfly on an American DDR mix for-freakin'-ever), but in all reality, if this thing is going to take off, it's a pro.

-- Good-sized PREMIERE GAME songlist. Like I said above, if they can hit 60, even against 5th or 7th, they're safe. Pump It Up was the same way, I think (30-40 songs), and it's still around...although DDR started with a VERY small songlist, no one can copy that nowadays and live.

-- More two-player stuff. Couple steps, like in Pump It Up or DDR's Unison/Couple, and competitive things (which I'm not entirely sure I understand), are two things that have been missed SORELY since 3rd (Battle in 4th sucked). I like the idea of playing something different with someone...playing Versus in DDR is like playing two people play two one-player games at the same time, and it gets stale fast. Only in tourneys is that sort of thing useful, and it can still be done anyway on this (I think).

Cons:

-- I know SaeNoDa doesn't wanna hear this, but, no matter how good this may be, this gonna be seen as a worthless DDR clone, and the DDR fanboys/girls are gonna make fun of the damn thing like there's no tomorrow. Doesn't help that it's using the DDR cabinet...if it has its own machine, that MIGHT help...but the thing that will hurt this game the most is the fact that it plays exactly like DDR.

-- Personally, I could care less about the Stepmania-style mods on there. They don't add anything but a headache for me. Heck, most people I know hate Reverse, and I'm starting to side with them. Hidden and Sudden have a point, at least, along with the pattern-changing mods.

-- *eyes the

layout*...those lawyers better be pretty damn good...on that note, it really doesn't differentiate itself enough from DDR, which will hurt it a lot in the long run. One of the main pulls to Pump It Up (for me, anyway) is the fact that it ISN'T DDR. I'm playing a different game when I play PIU, and, although I haven't touched a machine yet, it's difficult to say that about this.

That's just what I see so far. I LOVE the idea that an American arcade dancing game is getting produced...I just hope it takes off.

Michael
Guardian

Edit:

Syxx · Trick Member Joined: 20 Feb 2003 Location: Chicagoland

Alright, look, some guy's two and a half line post isn't gonna sway anyone's opinion of the game, so you just need to not worry about it.

Like I said in my first post here, the game looks pretty sweet. Stepmania is a quality product. I expect this to be even better as it is going to be a commercial product. So just chill and don't worry about what people think.

Anyway, good luck to the developers because it looks like they have a long way to go legally, even though they say that they do not.

Oh yeah, one more thing:

MIDWESTERNERS ROCK ON!!!!!!!

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Mysterio · Trick Member Joined: 20 Nov 2002 Location: Aiken, SC

Am I correct in understanding that this will use DDR cabinents?

I'm afriad I don't like that idea. Maybe if I was in an arcade that had several DDR machinces and they changed one it would be okay. But if they came and gutted my DDR I would be mad.

Not that I should worry about seeing this anytime soon; we still don't have DDR Extreme here.

Aside from that, it looks okay, a few homies nothwithstanding.

I hate the perspective, and I have never cared for Stepmania (it never felt right), but then again this *isn't* DDR...not quite at least.

The songs I have heard are also okay, although I think I still prefer most of my DDR music, thank you very much.

It just seems there are trying too hard to make it "cool" and not hard enough making it "good."

Ultimately, I see this as a decent compliment to DDR, but not as a viable replacement. Personally, when I tire of DDR, I'm sure I'll stop playing dancing games in general.

My 2 cents.
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[quote:ed89271168="Frozen CaffMaj 4 Extreme"]just because i play ddr, does that mean i'm going to go randomly stomp someone to death?[/quote]

...but Rhythm and Police is no longer crazy!

rampage · Administrator Joined: 24 Jan 2002 Location: Redmond, WA

Konami may not have an arcade division in the US anymore, but they still sell DDR in the US. It's like repackaging, say, Mario Sunshine and calling it "Marioz SuperBright!" and putting it into a Mortal Kombat cabinet. Nintendo will take notice.

saucissondansant · Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2003 10:47 am Post subject: Do-Gooders

While I am hopeful that ITG will do well (hey, I'm on the payroll), I would truly be astounded if it did good. Like, for example, if it saved a kitten from a burning building. Or if it contributed to the peace process in the Middle East. I think it would be great if it did good, but seeing as it is in essence an inanimate object, idiomatically we're required to expect it to *do well*.

we now cheekily return you to your normal level of discourse.
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I work with Roxor Games, producers of In The Groove: http://www.roxorgames.com/itg.html

AlphaConqerer · Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2003 10:49 am Post subject:

Poor SaeNoDa. Valiant effort and good job keeping the dream alive, though^_^ I'll step in now as well.

Well, I'm going to try "In the Groove" out tomorrow at Illusionz, because I think I see what the developers, as well as the local bemani community up here in the Pacific Northwest, want to accomplish. I myself am a Drummania player now, but this is largely because I feel Konami DOESN'T appeal to the American market, as much as it could/should.

This is a response to that. I wonder why a lot of you are so concerned about the legal issues; its been mentioned enough times, and I'm pretty certain the developers are aware of it. They have lawyers, they're prepared, yet they're still going ahead with it.

Thus, what is really needed from you all here is constructive criticism.

I.E. Any songs you want to see? Genres? You could always join up to the roxor forums are be active there (your woes will probably be addressed more quickly there, as well). Since a number of you can not play the game, and must keep in mind its 50% completedness, it would be safe to say that accusations of its playability are largely relegated to opinion and, if I have to choose between the opinion of one who HAS played the game and the opinion of one who HASN'T...well, I think I know who I'm gonna listen to.

This thread is to bring the game's development to your attention. I would therefore highly encourage you all to be constructive in your arguments. Reccomend song types or music! You never know what might get in there! Being unhappy and vengeful just seems counterproductive to what the roxor team is trying to accomplish.

I feel that, if you all truely support what DDR has accomplished and was trying to accomplish, you will make efforts to productive posts in this thread.

In any case, once I get back from my trip to Illusionz, I shall post my opinion(s).^_^

Thanks for bringing this to our attention, Sae.

~Chris

chrisdanford · Roxor Staff Joined: 25 Oct 2003 Location: Seattle, WA

The game is still early in development. We could have waited and put on more polish before this public test, but earlier feedback will lead to a better final game. Thanks everyone for your input. We are reading it!

Also, don't worry about any legal issues. It would be dumb of us to release a game without researching all these issues beforehand, right? ;-)