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DDR: Player Class System
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Slowpoke
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20. PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Suko wrote:
However, certain skill levels overlap. (i.e. a Pro will obviously qualify as all the other classes by default). So while pro only means 1/300 players or less that play, pro's also fit the category of 1st, 2nd, and noob class. So, in a way, they also count as a head in those categories as well. Same can be said for each class down the ladder.
Using that logic, noobs would be 100%.

In other words, you're overthinking it...
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21. PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Slowpoke wrote:
Suko wrote:
However, certain skill levels overlap. (i.e. a Pro will obviously qualify as all the other classes by default). So while pro only means 1/300 players or less that play, pro's also fit the category of 1st, 2nd, and noob class. So, in a way, they also count as a head in those categories as well. Same can be said for each class down the ladder.
Using that logic, noobs would be 100%.

In other words, you're overthinking it...


I would like to think that this is like a board game. Perhaps Chutes and Ladders! You move spaces and you move closer and closer to the goal, which is Pro. You start by passing the first few spaces, which are Noob. Somewhere in your adventure you get a boost. You know, you reach a milestone a little early, you pass your first local tournament, or the mega-boost, you get your own ITG/DDR machine!

Then there are the chutes, like you lose interest in the game or you misuse ankle weights, or the big chute, you break your leg(s). That knocks you down a couple of levels.

TL;DR, it's just easier thinking of this as a board game than as a mathematical problem.
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Slowpoke
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22. PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That guy with the afro... wrote:
Then there are the chutes, like you lose interest in the game or you misuse ankle weights...

... or you get old... that's just one long chute that never hits bottom...
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23. PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you want to get a pretty good idea of where the higher classes are, go to www.groovestats.com.

The breakdown sorta goes like this:

If you were to have 100 people venture to your local arcade (typical) to play, this is what they would be like.

30 of them would have no idea whatsoever what they are doing, play one song, and walk off.

Of the remaining 70, 50 would play on < level 6 difficulty.

Of the remaining 20, 16 would be able to play up to level 9 (but not pass level 10).

The remaining four would be able to at least pass level 10, with maybe one being able to AA level 10 (this used to be referred to as the "local guru").

You would not see a pro at your typical local arcade, because pros usually go to "magnet" arcades. These are arcades where more skilled players collect. There, you find a whole new ballgame:

Of the 100 regulars, 60 will be able to play up to level 9.

Of the remaining 40, 30 would be able to at least beat level 10 with a B or better (~A in ITG).

The remaining 10 would be a hodgepodge of Class 1+ mixed with pro.

Regional magnet arcades have roughly 20% of their playing population be pro (or close to it).
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Suko
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24. PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For all intents and purposes, the % isn't very important. The number of people from each category will vary greatly depending on which arcade you frequent. The only reason I put it down was so people can understand the demographics for each Class.

In the long run, if this class system ever takes off, the database will tell us the percentile breakdowns for each class. Very similar to how groovestats does this for the songs. So I feel that worrying about such things at this point is irrelevant.

On another note, I was also thinking it could be really awesome to integrate some kind of achievement or awards system into this. The foundation sounds like it might have already been done through the "yet to be implemented trophy system" on BeatSpace.net.

Maybe the requirements to reach a certain Class can be reached through the completion of achievements. So, instead of having only one method of reaching 2nd Class, you could do it in a variety of ways. Instead of a player having to complete 5 set requirements, they have to complete 5 achievements from a list of 8. It's something to think about. If anything it would make the system a lot more flexible and easier for players of all playing styles to progress appropriately.
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Vandel.M
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25. PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i like that idea i got lost at the pro part though but i got a sense but like you guys should try and a get a definite like set class system so the whole community can take part and maybe this should get a sticky idk but yeah just my little 2 cents riiight.gif
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Suko
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26. PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would love for there to be a universally adopted system for DDR or ITG players to use in reference to their "abilities". I'm hoping that with some time and everyone's input we can create a balanced Class system that is easy for players to participate in. Websites like Beatspace and Groovestats and DDRecall could definitely play a key role in getting this kind of thing universally accepted. But this idea was born less than a week ago, and still needs some refinement before we take it to that level. E13.gif
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27. PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you are looking for achievement barriers, here is a interesting list to chew over:

1. Able to beat an oni course
2. Able to beat a marathon course
3. Able to beat a survival course
4. Pass a song on expert mode (DDR) aka Heavy
5. Pass Max 300, Xepher (Oni), or Bag
6. AAA a song on expert mode
7. SDP a song on expert mode (<10 perfects)
8. Pass nightmare on normal
9. Pass nightmare on intense
10. Read flip
11. Pass an 11, 12, 13...
12. **, ***, **** a song
13. **, ***, or **** a certain percentage of hard/expert charts on ITG (113 official expert in total)
14. Obtain 70,80,90, or 100 percent greats on an expert song
15. Achieve a score of 0 (0%) while still passing a song.
16. Pass difficult edit songs like Welcome to Rainbow, Strangeprogram, Air, Boss on Parade, One Winged Angel, etc.

I think you see what I am getting at here.

Now, I will break each feat down by skill level:
Score = 1 to 8... where 8 means something extremely difficult and 1 is something extremely easy.

1. 2
2. 2
3. 4
4. 1
5. 3
6. 4
7. 8
8. 6
9. 8
10. 3 (on easy) 4 (on medium) 7 (on hard) 8 (on expert)
11. 5 (beating an 11), 6 (beating a 12) 7 (beating a 13)
12. 5 (**), 6 (***), 7 (****)
13. Varies... but ***ing more than 80 expert officials is an 8.
14. 4 (70%), 5 (80%), 6 (90%), 8 (100%)
15. 8
16. 7-8 (depends on the song)
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Suko
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28. PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ninja N8 wrote:

5. Pass Max 300, Xepher (Oni), or Bag
6. AAA a song on expert mode
7. SDP a song on expert mode (<10 perfects)

8. Pass nightmare on normal
9. Pass nightmare on intense

...

5. 3
6. 4
7. 8

8. 6
9. 8


I assume you mean a AAA to be worth more than an SDP?

Also, I definitely don't think Bag deserves comparison to Xepher and 300, unless you're referring to No Speed Mods.

But overall I like these goals. The idea of having a point value associated makes this infinitely easier for the players too. For example: 3rd Class goal = 100 points, 2nd Class = 200, 1st Class = 300, 1st Class+ = 400, Pro = 500 (or perfect score). Obviously I just came up with these number arbitrarily, but this could actually work really well. I think my next step is to create a huge list a viable achievements that encompass a wide range of skills and play styles. I also need some advice for doubles mode achievements, since I'm not too great at doubles and wouldn't know what to make for reasonable achievements.
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29. PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Suko wrote:

I also need some advice for doubles mode achievements, since I'm not too great at doubles and wouldn't know what to make for reasonable achievements.


Just throwing this out there, since I just started playing doubles.

1. Pass 8s and below. Difficulty 1
2. Pass 9s with an A. Difficulty 3
3. Full combo a 9. Difficulty 4
4. Pass a 10. Difficulty 5?
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30. PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think there should be two different sets of "achievements" for DDR and ITG, as not everyone plays both of them. I know it would be a great way to get people to actually play both games, but sometimes the reason has to do with not having access to one or the other. (Hi thar, Central New York!)
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31. PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Suko wrote:
Ninja N8 wrote:

5. Pass Max 300, Xepher (Oni), or Bag
6. AAA a song on expert mode
7. SDP a song on expert mode (<10 perfects)

8. Pass nightmare on normal
9. Pass nightmare on intense

...

5. 3
6. 4
7. 8

8. 6
9. 8


I assume you mean a AAA to be worth more than an SDP?

Also, I definitely don't think Bag deserves comparison to Xepher and 300, unless you're referring to No Speed Mods.

But overall I like these goals. The idea of having a point value associated makes this infinitely easier for the players too. For example: 3rd Class goal = 100 points, 2nd Class = 200, 1st Class = 300, 1st Class+ = 400, Pro = 500 (or perfect score). Obviously I just came up with these number arbitrarily, but this could actually work really well. I think my next step is to create a huge list a viable achievements that encompass a wide range of skills and play styles. I also need some advice for doubles mode achievements, since I'm not too great at doubles and wouldn't know what to make for reasonable achievements.


No, I meant that a SDP is worth more than the AAA.

Tell me how easy it is for you to AAA, then play a song and try to get less than 10 perfects on a song (with the rest being marvelous).

If you can SDP more songs than you can AAA, I wanna see that.
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32. PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 12:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ninja N8 wrote:


No, I meant that a SDP is worth more than the AAA.

Tell me how easy it is for you to AAA, then play a song and try to get less than 10 perfects on a song (with the rest being marvelous).

If you can SDP more songs than you can AAA, I wanna see that.


Easy, just make the rest Greats.

Nah, that's just horrible.
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33. PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ninja N8 wrote:

No, I meant that a SDP is worth more than the AAA.

Tell me how easy it is for you to AAA, then play a song and try to get less than 10 perfects on a song (with the rest being marvelous).

If you can SDP more songs than you can AAA, I wanna see that.


Oh, I assume you're speakin in terms of SN2 scoring. I myself haven't had a chance to play on SN2, so I was still assuming DDR Extreme scoring, where a AAA is 100% perfects. So the fact that you're saying getting SDP is better than getting ALL perfects was confusing as hell, but I understand now.
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34. PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Suko wrote:
Ninja N8 wrote:

No, I meant that a SDP is worth more than the AAA.

Tell me how easy it is for you to AAA, then play a song and try to get less than 10 perfects on a song (with the rest being marvelous).

If you can SDP more songs than you can AAA, I wanna see that.


Oh, I assume you're speakin in terms of SN2 scoring. I myself haven't had a chance to play on SN2, so I was still assuming DDR Extreme scoring, where a AAA is 100% perfects. So the fact that you're saying getting SDP is better than getting ALL perfects was confusing as hell, but I understand now.


I was wonderin' how I lost ya there E13.gif

I meant SN2 scoring.
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35. PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That guy with the afro... wrote:
Suko wrote:

I also need some advice for doubles mode achievements, since I'm not too great at doubles and wouldn't know what to make for reasonable achievements.


Just throwing this out there, since I just started playing doubles.

1. Pass 8s and below. Difficulty 1
2. Pass 9s with an A. Difficulty 3
3. Full combo a 9. Difficulty 4
4. Pass a 10. Difficulty 5?


Thanks for the suggestions. I'm thinking of making points on a 1-10 scale. I still have yet to set calibrators for the scale (i.e. what justifies a 3, 6, 8, whatever). But for now I see 1 point being something totally simple and perhaps just a bit fun, like getting a full combo on a light song. While a 10 would be very rare feat, such as AAA Maxx Unlimited on Heavy, or quad-starring a 12+ in ITG.

Perhaps if people can offer up suggested achievements and their corresponding point value, I could start to put together a small database or possible achievements. After I've collected enough, I can then determine how many points should be required for a player to qualify for a specific Class.

Btw, in case someone was confused; once an achievement has been earned, it cannot be used again. So once you get the 1 point achievement for passing a song on light, you can no longer get that point again.
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36. PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Recall should rate users according to this.
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37. PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 5:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yukihime wrote:
oh yay, I've passed noob and am now 3rd class!

Boy do I need a ton of practice, gah. Of course, I only started playing DDR in mid-May and ITG in late August and I am 54. So, this is gonna take a long time!

Will be very happy if I can make it to 2nd class E1.gif


I can say the very same thing E1.gif . Only I've been playing DDR for three years now and I still haven't attained second-class yet. But I'm okay with that.
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38. PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm still putting ideas and strategies together to help make this system into something useful and practical. Things have been a bit hectic lately, but I'm going to put together an achievement chart soon and try and give appropriate point values to each.
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39. PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

v4extreme wrote:
Recall should rate users according to this.


Maybe it ought to be suggested to them.
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