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DMAshura
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Joined: 25 Jun 2004
Location: Roswell, GA |
0.  Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 11:33 pm Post subject: Maxergizer |
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I'm assuming everybody's familiar with Energizer. In fact, that's quite easy to assume, because it's occurred to me that we might be a little TOO familiar with Energizer. Allow me to demonstrate.
http://www.dmashura.com/maxergizer/MAXERGIZER.mp3
For this mp3, I put Energizer, unchanged, on the left speaker. In the right, I put corresponding parts of Max300, which have been detuned 3 semitones (so as to go from F minor to D minor) and sped up from 300 to 303 bpm. You'll notice they sound almost EXACTLY the same in a lot of ways.
At 0:31, you'll notice in the left speaker a very choppy vocal sample. Interestingly enough, I used this exact same vocal sample, pitched the EXACT same way, in my own song for DTX (originally composed for ItG), Z. I've provided the original sample, and a clip of where it's used in Z. Also, if you are familiar with Z at all, you'll notice that it's very similar in style to Z in general.
http://www.dmashura.com/maxergizer/hou19_01.wav
http://www.dmashura.com/maxergizer/Z%20vocal.mp3
Now, when it hits 0:53, I've spliced in another piano melody on top of the quarter-speed slowdown there. Does that melody sound familiar? ...neoMAX. All I did was convert the time signature.
So, here we have one of In the Groove 2's most played songs, Energizer. ZiGZaG (Andy) is making money off this song. When really it's not even his. It's clearly a ripoff of three songs.
...and two of them are MINE. |
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LazyKenny
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Joined: 25 May 2005
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| 1. Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 12:38 am Post subject: |
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Aren't you going to do something about it? Especially if he's making money off it.
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Pop'n Usagi!
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Joined: 17 Nov 2002
Location: Your mum |
| 2. Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 1:14 am Post subject: |
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| LazyKenny wrote: | | Aren't you going to do something about it? Especially if he's making money off it. |
Your sig is appropriate 
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[quote:8b1ee61c71="rampage in oct '04"]
I'm sure if it was sold for profit, Konami would clamp down on it (I'm sure it's a matter of time before they clamp down on ITG).[/quote]
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CHUCK BASS
Trick Member
Joined: 26 Jul 2004
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| 3. Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 3:28 am Post subject: Re: Maxergizer |
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| DMAshura wrote: | You'll notice they sound almost EXACTLY the same in a lot of ways.
At 0:31, you'll notice in the left speaker a very choppy vocal sample. Interestingly enough, I used this exact same vocal sample, pitched the EXACT same way, in my own song for DTX (originally composed for ItG), Z. I've provided the original sample, and a clip of where it's used in Z. Also, if you are familiar with Z at all, you'll notice that it's very similar in style to Z in general.
http://www.dmashura.com/maxergizer/hou19_01.wav
http://www.dmashura.com/maxergizer/Z%20vocal.mp3
Now, when it hits 0:53, I've spliced in another piano melody on top of the quarter-speed slowdown there. Does that melody sound familiar? ...neoMAX. All I did was convert the time signature.
So, here we have one of In the Groove 2's most played songs, Energizer. ZiGZaG (Andy) is making money off this song. When really it's not even his. It's clearly a ripoff of three songs.
...and two of them are MINE. |
Look over those.
Is Neomax on any versions of DDR? Correct me if I'm wrong but thats FFR, andit's really just the mix of the Max's. You altered that to, to sound like Neo Max.
You make good points but you altered some of it, and they aren't exactly the same. Wouldn't hold up in a court, because the two are very similar, they are still different. Considering Energizer is about 20 seconds longer. |
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Kyrandian
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Joined: 24 Mar 2002
Location: Portland, OR |
| 4. Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 6:13 am Post subject: |
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| Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you (Ashura) give Kyle Ward your old Z flp to have him do some mastering work on it? If so, I have no trouble believing this. I still love Energizer either way. It's my favorite max. |
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DMAshura
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Joined: 25 Jun 2004
Location: Roswell, GA |
| 5. Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 7:20 am Post subject: |
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There isn't much I could do in a court anyway. neoMAX is still copyrighted to Konami. Z's copyright to me. They're different enough that pretty much no argument could be made in a court about it but you at least have to admit they're still VERY similar. A little too similar for comfort to me.
Oh and...
| Kyrandian wrote: | | I still love Energizer either way. It's my favorite max. |
I'd say this is more proof here. |
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Pop'n Usagi!
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Joined: 17 Nov 2002
Location: Your mum |
| 6. Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 10:49 am Post subject: |
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How'd NeoMAX get copyrighted to Konami?
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[quote:8b1ee61c71="rampage in oct '04"]
I'm sure if it was sold for profit, Konami would clamp down on it (I'm sure it's a matter of time before they clamp down on ITG).[/quote]
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Rancidfish
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Joined: 29 Jun 2002
Location: Santa Rosa, CA/Santa Cruz, CA |
| 7. Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Pop'n Usagi! wrote: | | How'd NeoMAX get copyrighted to Konami? |
The fact that, unlike Z, it's not an original song. It's an remix without permission (presumably) of all the MAX songs, so DMAshura has no real legal power over it.
EDIT: Or what Malice said, I don't know DMAshura's business.
Anyway, since he's crossposting this on every forum ever, I'm crossposting my response everywhere, too.
He's not ripping the songs off. He's making a song that's very stylistically similar.
Part 1, Energizer vs. MAX 300 - the beats
Energizer:
--xx--x x---x---
--xx--x-xx-xx---
MAX 300
x-xxxx-xx-x-xx-x
x-x-xx-xx-x-x---
You may also note that MAX 300 has a true 300 BPM backbeat, while Energizer is just 151.5 BPM with a 303 BPM scrollrate.
Part 2, Energizer vs. MAX 300 - the synth
Energizer
xxx-x-xxx-xx-xx-
MAX 300
x-x--x-xx-x--x-x
etc.
Part 3, Energizer vs. Z - the vocal sample
Listening to the original version of Energizer, I don't hear anything remotely like that vocal sample that you linked to, so I think you're full of it in that respect. Also, I notice some very large stylistic differences between Energizer and Z, so you can't really say that they're "very stylistically similar." Though I like Z, I'd say that the piano takes too prominent a role. Energizer has that awesome synth, and the piano is only even present during the slowdown. Speaking of which...
Part 4, Energizer vs. NeoMAX - the piano slowdown
Maybe it's just me, but the two piano parts sound incredibly out of tune when played together, so they're not the same melody at all, and you said yourself that you had to change the time signature of NeoMAX. If you're specifically altering things to sound the same, then you can't really say "he just took my song and..." because the differences indicate that there obviously was creativity on Andy's part.
If he sampled from your song, used the exact same rhythms and melodies, etc. as your song, or whatever, I'd say you have right to complain. He didn't, so don't go around calling "plagiarism!!!!". You can't just go around saying "Look, I made the songs the same key, and now they sound in-tune with each other, see?" WELL DUH.
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Last edited by Rancidfish on Tue Oct 18, 2005 6:24 pm, edited 2 times in total |
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Thomas Hobbes
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Joined: 20 Aug 2002
Location: San Francisco // NorCal |
| 8. Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Pop'n Usagi! wrote: | | How'd NeoMAX get copyrighted to Konami? |
I believe he has sent it in to Konami in a contest or a musicianship trial. Thus, I believe that all entries become to property of Konami, which is why they must own the copyright.
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Marq(uistadorous)
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Joined: 03 Aug 2005
Location: Arvada, CO |
| 9. Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 5:37 pm Post subject: Re: Maxergizer |
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That's a awsome song
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Thomas Hobbes
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Location: San Francisco // NorCal |
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claw
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Joined: 19 Jul 2004
Location: Brampton/Mississauga, Ontario |
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Wolfman Jake
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Joined: 13 Sep 2002
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| 12. Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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Vanilla Ice sez:
"'Boom boom boom bababoom...BAboom boom boom bababoom' is totally different from the riff from Under Pressure. I didn't rip off David Bowie at all!"
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VxJasonxV
Maniac Member
Joined: 08 Feb 2002
Location: Castle Rock, CO |
| 13. Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 1:46 am Post subject: |
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| Wolfman Jake wrote: | Vanilla Ice sez:
"'Boom boom boom bababoom...BAboom boom boom bababoom' is totally different from the riff from Under Pressure. I didn't rip off David Bowie at all!" |
Quit stealing my jokes  .
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Regulator10886
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Joined: 14 Nov 2004
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| 14. Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 6:52 am Post subject: |
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this is a very interesting topic considering my friends and i always thought energizer sounded like a combination of max 300 and neoMAX at that one part... heh
on a side note, i personally thought pandemonium was max 300's and gamelan de couple's child |
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Sex + Violence
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Joined: 08 Oct 2005
Location: SHOOTING A HO. |
| 15. Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 7:32 am Post subject: |
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| Rancidfish wrote: |
You may also note that MAX 300 has a true 300 BPM backbeat, while Energizer is just 151.5 BPM with a 303 BPM scrollrate.
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No it does not. It is 150 BPM, with a lot of 1/8th notes. Thats like saying Trip Machine Climax is 360 BPM because it has the 8th note kick drums.
Ive noticed how similar energizer was to max 300 before.
Also, while there are parts during the piano where it isnt quite on key, it does sync up suspiciously well. |
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Rancidfish
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Joined: 29 Jun 2002
Location: Santa Rosa, CA/Santa Cruz, CA |
| 16. Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 2:02 pm Post subject: |
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| OoziumStrike wrote: | | Thats like saying Trip Machine Climax is 360 BPM because it has the 8th note kick drums. |
That's like saying Be In My Paradise is 126 BPM. Most of the song, MAX 300 has a constant backbeat hitting every beat at 300 BPM. Sometimes it's a snare, sometime it's a kick, sometimes it's both, but you can't say that's not 300 BPM. Compare that to a 150 BPM song, like Dynamite Rave. Compare that, in turn, to a super-slow song like Be In My Paradise. There's an entirely different percussive feel and overall tempo conveyed by each of these songs. You can call them 150 BPM, 150 BPM, and 126 BPM, but then where do you draw the line? At exactly what point can you slow down a song and the BPM suddenly becomes higher? Should all BPMs be between 100 and 200 BPM?
They're different BPMs. Deal with it.
Trip Machine Climax frequently does go into 1/8th note kick runs, but it's not consistent, and the consistent feel of the tempo is 180 BPM. Then, just listen to Energizer. Boom... bop... boom... bop... the main backbeat is just so slow compared to the backbeat in MAX 300. It's 151.5 BPM.
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Sex + Violence
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Joined: 08 Oct 2005
Location: SHOOTING A HO. |
| 17. Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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| To me, Max 300 just sounds like a more intense 150 BPM beat. |
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Regulator10886
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Joined: 14 Nov 2004
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| 18. Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 7:33 am Post subject: |
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| Rancidfish wrote: | | OoziumStrike wrote: | | Thats like saying Trip Machine Climax is 360 BPM because it has the 8th note kick drums. |
That's like saying Be In My Paradise is 126 BPM. Most of the song, MAX 300 has a constant backbeat hitting every beat at 300 BPM. Sometimes it's a snare, sometime it's a kick, sometimes it's both, but you can't say that's not 300 BPM. Compare that to a 150 BPM song, like Dynamite Rave. Compare that, in turn, to a super-slow song like Be In My Paradise. There's an entirely different percussive feel and overall tempo conveyed by each of these songs. You can call them 150 BPM, 150 BPM, and 126 BPM, but then where do you draw the line? At exactly what point can you slow down a song and the BPM suddenly becomes higher? Should all BPMs be between 100 and 200 BPM?
They're different BPMs. Deal with it.
Trip Machine Climax frequently does go into 1/8th note kick runs, but it's not consistent, and the consistent feel of the tempo is 180 BPM. Then, just listen to Energizer. Boom... bop... boom... bop... the main backbeat is just so slow compared to the backbeat in MAX 300. It's 151.5 BPM. |
lol youre arguement is so invalid its mind boggling... what youre trying to tell us is that youre allowed to cut bpms in half as long as it suits your arguement but we arent allowed to?
in my own opinion, if a song can be 150 bpm, it could also be 300 bpm... or even 600 bpm. it could be 75 also... the point im trying to make is that as long as youre tapping to a beat of the song, you will get a multiple of some number in which a song scrolls to.
there is no need to be splitting hairs about if energizer is a true 303 or if its 151.5 because the fact of the matter is that it really does have an uncanny similarity to max 300 that MANY people have noticed |
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RTF
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Joined: 30 Jun 2005
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| 19. Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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| regulator10886 wrote: | lol youre arguement is so invalid its mind boggling... what youre trying to tell us is that youre allowed to cut bpms in half as long as it suits your arguement but we arent allowed to?
...as youre tapping to a beat of the song, you will get a multiple of some number in which a song scrolls to. |
Yes, you could multiply the BPM by any number and then modify the note data to match it, tard.
BPM is an aesthetic quality first and a measuring device second. When a producer says "I'm doing a song at 250 BPM" it's going to sound like 250, not 125. What Gus is saying is that Max300 has been defined as 300, even if you want to argue that it doesn't have an appropriate backbeat. If it were defined as 150 it would have lost a lot of VISUAL impact because of the diminished scrollspeed. |
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