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C200, C400 and speed mod usage
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matthew
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0. PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 5:43 am    Post subject: C200, C400 and speed mod usage Reply with quote

I am not here to say "mods suck" or something else stupid since I use them myself. I won't even respond unless someone flames mes. I would hate it for this thread to turn into one of those arguments again. But I do have (what I believe) is a legitimate question.

It is a my understanding that people find the usage of C300, C400 mods on ITG to be cheap and they disqualify people for rankings for songs with tempo changes. However at the same time, most people I see who use speed mods pick them depending on the 1x scroll speed (eg. 5x for stuff under 100 bpm, 3x for 100-150 bpm etc.). Of course, people who play everything on one speed are not part of this question.

Could someone explain C mods are considered cheap but speed mod usage I described is not? I feel both things I am describing are equivalent. The only point I can think of is that the mod usage I described allows for some variation on scroll speed where C mods do not.
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Boochypa
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1. PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 5:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's a reason Cmods only DQ you if the song has BPM changes or stops.

Consider Euphoria (expert) on 3x, then look at it on C400. One of the challenges of that song is trying to FA the very very slow part, which is no longer very very slow if you slap a Cmod on it. This makes the song easier to FA, thus DQing your score.
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Slowpoke
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2. PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 6:20 am    Post subject: Re: C200, C400 and speed mod usage Reply with quote

matthew wrote:
Could someone explain C mods are considered cheap but speed mod usage I described is not?

Because people go to a C mod not to get the scroll rate they want, but to eliminate the effect of pauses and BPM changes.

On the other hand, I think it's "cheap" when stepchart designers put in artificial slowdowns just to force a player to read densely-packed arrows.
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djmon
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3. PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 7:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

you guys should bring this in the ITG Thread since there is no C mods in DDR
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Slowpoke
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4. PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 7:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

trupnoi wrote:
you guys should bring this in the ITG Thread since there is no C mods in DDR

But there are in Stepmania... so maybe we should go to the simulators thread instead. So confusing! E19.gif
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djmon
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5. PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 7:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

indeed
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BraveLittleToaster
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6. PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I only use C400 on ITG on songs that do not have bmp changes. If it does, then I use normal mods.
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matthew
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7. PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 8:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

slowpoke, your reasoning works for me.
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sherl0k
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8. PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moved to ITG discussion.
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9. PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They don't have a Cmod fast enough for me frown.gif
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J. S. Mill
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10. PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think people consider CMods "cheap" unless they DQ, in which case they remove part of the challenge of the stepchart.
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Karl Popper
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11. PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2005 11:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SPF5.Kiba wrote:
I don't think people consider CMods "cheap" unless they DQ, in which case they remove part of the challenge of the stepchart.


Exactly. There is nothing magical about the numbers 400 and 500; to condemn them is tantamount to condemning speed mods in general, and while I understand that there are critics of speed mods I don't see any logical basis for just criticizing C-mods (unless they disqualify of course).
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12. PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 3:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The main *Decent* argument i've heard against Cmods is the fact that right now, if your comfort bpm isn't 300, 400, or 500, you can't deal into your ideal bpm. For example, a friend of mine is really comfortable around 450 or so, but it isn't easy getting exactly that, so he either has to play stuff that is too slow, or too fast. I've been hearing rumors (and i hope they are true) that ITG2 will allow you to have one custom x mod (like 3.5x) and one custom Cmod (C602 plz) that you'd write in your editable.ini on your memory card..that would definitely make things interesting..
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matthew
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13. PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i wasn't my intention to criticize C mods, i just wanted a better understanding for my own self. i'm sorry if i gave that impression.

but there are some who think C mods, no mines/hands are fine even if they do DQ disgust.gif (points to AIJ poll, i hope they were kidding)
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Reznor
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14. PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How did I know that this was going to be one of the first things posted on DDRFreak about ITG? >_>
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djfmf
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15. PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

does anyone know why playing "on a day like today 134bpm" would disqualify from ranking if you put it on c300? it doesn't show a speed change so it doesn't make sense on why i got DQ.
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Soda
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16. PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It probably has a pause somewhere.
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Karl Popper
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17. PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

djfmf wrote:
does anyone know why playing "on a day like today 134bpm" would disqualify from ranking if you put it on c300? it doesn't show a speed change so it doesn't make sense on why i got DQ.


Actually the bpm does fluctuate between 133.8 and 134.2 in random parts of the song, it's really rather dumb.
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Arctic Wolves
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18. PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, On A Day Like Today pulls a Night in Motion; the BPM changes, but so slightly that, given the rounding engine of the BPM indicator, it stays static at 134BPM. Perhaps it would be an idea to make songs that change BPM have differently coloured indicators, like in DDRMAX and MAX2, because it is impossible to know before hand that putting a C mod on On A Day Like Today will disqualify you unless you are aware of this tempo change.
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diddrstrait
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19. PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Arctic Wolves wrote:
Yeah, On A Day Like Today pulls a Night in Motion; the BPM changes, but so slightly that, given the rounding engine of the BPM indicator, it stays static at 134BPM. Perhaps it would be an idea to make songs that change BPM have differently coloured indicators, like in DDRMAX and MAX2, because it is impossible to know before hand that putting a C mod on On A Day Like Today will disqualify you unless you are aware of this tempo change.


well it WILL say at the bottom of the screen in the mods menu that you will be disqualified for using the mod on that song. also, the bpm indicator in the options screen next to the speed mod settings says BPM: 134-134, indicating a slight change.
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