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Devout Stealth homepad
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devout
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20. PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah... what he said. The cardboard holds the two pieces of metal apart, and when you step on it the steel just bends down sliiiiightly in the center and touches the tin foil. The screws are placed closer to the edges of the steps than the cardboard is so that the screws push the edges down and the cardboard pops the center up. when you step on it it just cancels out this upward popping force and flattens the steel back out, touching the tin foil and completing the circuit. There isnt too much springing going on because there isnt much motion to begin with.

One of these days i will actually go back and clarify things on the tutorial... im just so damn lazy (and putting in a lot more hours at the office this year than im used to)

Tofu, you can do what you want with my design... no patents here E15.gif
I would hope that anyone building pads tries/reads as many designs as they can and adapts to what works. The stealth was my 3rd pad... and adically different from anything i tried before. Eventually i'll get around to making a double for it using a slightly modified design that should save a few $$ and parts. (nothing majorly different though)

To give you an idea of the pace i usually work at, the plywood for the next pad has been in the trunk of my car for 2 months... i finally moved it inside today disturb.gif
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the world's most refined homepad: devout stealth

Almost-finished non-Stealth homepad for sale, just add sensors! see here: http://www.ddrfreak.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=8921579#8921579
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ChilliumBromide
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21. PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hm. . . I just realised something: wouldn't the design not allow for reaction along the edges? That could be a problem.
I think that using some 1/16" plastic (old credit card or library card or something) and only putting it on the corners might fix that though.

Yeah, I think everyone else has noticed that I work at a similar pace. E10.gif

If Dancing Tofu Gaming does use your design, we will be more than happy to throw some royalties your way.
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ceraf
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22. PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i gotta say, that's some siiick design. The only thing that's holding me back is my horrible past experience with aluminum foil, but i guess you took that into account...there's little to no rubbing against the foil! quite ingenious.

I might use this sensor design for my next project...
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devout
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23. PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ceraf wrote:
i gotta say, that's some siiick design. The only thing that's holding me back is my horrible past experience with aluminum foil, but i guess you took that into account...there's little to no rubbing against the foil! quite ingenious.

I might use this sensor design for my next project...


Im not a huge fan of the foil myself... but if it's properly epoxied down I cant imagine it ever ripping... cause yeah theres nothing rubbing on it really. Obviously you could use sheet metal instead but that'd cost more $$.
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Duragon910
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24. PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote



= sexy pad
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ChilliumBromide
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25. PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You could use copper foil; it's pretty similar, but won't tear as easily, although, as mentioned; done right, it wouldn't tear anyway. E15.gif

And yes, it is a sexy pad. I'm probably going to check what that wood you used on the top is, and use it myself for wood finish pads, since it's obviously not super-expensive, but looks nice.
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devout
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26. PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DancingTofu wrote:
You could use copper foil; it's pretty similar, but won't tear as easily, although, as mentioned; done right, it wouldn't tear anyway. E15.gif

And yes, it is a sexy pad. I'm probably going to check what that wood you used on the top is, and use it myself for wood finish pads, since it's obviously not super-expensive, but looks nice.


not expensive is right... cause its not really wood E15.gif

it's shelving, which is some kind of particleboard or strandboard covered with plastic that has a fake wood pattern printed on it. It's the same stuff that's used to make just about every computer desk.

If you wanted to use real wood, I'd recommend a hardwood like red oak, which would be really expensive, about $10 per square foot. + some kind of stain/sealer. Pine or SPF is just way too soft and will look like crap within days. You might be ok with plywood since it tends to be harder than plain lumber. Like I say in the website if you're on a tight budget you could use the spare plywood from the base to make the diagonal panels.
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the world's most refined homepad: devout stealth

Almost-finished non-Stealth homepad for sale, just add sensors! see here: http://www.ddrfreak.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=8921579#8921579
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pooface
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27. PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm considering building this mat, but nobody else has but the creator. It worries me that you have only tested it on 8 footers. Does anybody know how well this pad would hold up on 10s and up?
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devout
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28. PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pooface wrote:
I'm considering building this mat, but nobody else has but the creator. It worries me that you have only tested it on 8 footers. Does anybody know how well this pad would hold up on 10s and up?


As far as i know, no one else has built it yet. Maybe i'll go practice some 9s so I can answer your question. Unfortunately i only have a ps1, so I cant test on anything over 9.
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the world's most refined homepad: devout stealth

Almost-finished non-Stealth homepad for sale, just add sensors! see here: http://www.ddrfreak.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=8921579#8921579
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29. PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

devout wrote:
Unfortunately i only have a ps1, so I cant test on anything over 9.

You don't have a PS2/USB adapter for Stepmania?
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RespectJSB
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30. PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Devout: so if you are only playing PS1 DDR, does that mean you haven't been able to test out how your pad does with freeze arrows? (if my DDR chronology is correct, didn't freeze arrows not appear until DDRMAX/PS2?)

Regardless, I am going to go ahead and take a shot at building one of these anyway. I got a $10 off $50 Lowe's coupon E1.gif and I always like to play around with these power tools and stuff I've got in my garage. E4.gif

KO
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devout
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31. PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 8:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are correct: no testing on freeze arrows. Though based on navigating menus etc I dont think holding steps would be a problem. No guarantees though.

BTW, I think i mentioned this in the website, but if you already have a homepad made with a design like the original ddrhomepad, you can easily use this sensor design to add diagonal arrows... all you'd need to do is remove the sheet metal from your diagonal steps, add the wiring,foil cardboard etc, and reassemble it. This might be a good option if you want to test out the concept without making a whole new pad. The only thing you should have to buy is the epoxy and a couple feet of wire.

(Note, you need to place the carboard strips at about the same location as the screws holding the sheet metal on, so if you put your screws 1" in from the edges like I think most designs do, you'd need your carboard to be 1" in, not .5" like I say in the tutorial. So you'll have a smaller sensitive area than if you made it from scratch following my directions... but still I think this is a cool way to add diagonal steps to an existing pad for almost no money.)
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the world's most refined homepad: devout stealth

Almost-finished non-Stealth homepad for sale, just add sensors! see here: http://www.ddrfreak.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=8921579#8921579
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32. PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 5:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Devout:

ok, I've got one of your pads more or less built. All I really have left to do is to run the wires to the control box, and screw down the non-arrrows and borders. Using my continuity tester, 3 of the arrows seem to be working fine, but one of them is giving me problems with constant continuity (even with the screws torqued all the way down per your troubleshooting suggestion). This arrow was the first one that I epoxied so I think this didnt turn out as smooth as the others but it is still quite flat and the sheet metal looks nice and flat too.
I thought maybe the coin was either too high or too low so I messed with that a bit but it didnt help.
However, when I placed another set of cardboard strips around the edges, it did break the continuity and seem to clear up the problem. Do you think I should go ahead and tape the extra set down and go from the there or do you have any better ideas?? (besides re-doing the whole step, which I really dont want to do)

also, in regards to trimming the cardboard from the corners, the site says 3/4" (which is what I did) but above you are saying 1/2". which should it be?

thanks
Ken
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devout
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33. PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The .5" I was talking about above was the distance the carboard strip centerline is in from the edge (ie the strip centerline should be roughly colinear with the centers of the screws you're putting in the corners. The trimming in the corners should be .75" like it says on the page. The idea is that there is a slight gap between the screw (downward force) and the cardboard (upward force) and the steel can flex a little over this distance, creating the upward bulging I mentioned.

As for the step not working, there's nothing wrong with adding another layer of cardboard, it just might make for a noticible deflection when you step on it, and maybe a little noise when you step on it since the steel has a little more distance over which to accelerate. The fact that adding strips helps probably is an indication that the problem probably is a bubble in the foil, or the sheet metal is bent down slightly in the middle. (as opposed to exposed foil around the edges)

If you look down the edge of the step and cannot see any bubbles/high points (like maybe bulged up because there was a speck of sawdust trapped under the foil when you glued it) Then it's probably the steel is bent slightly downward. You could try bending it up a little in the middle, just be careful not to deform it in any other way. If you do notice a bubble, try popping it in several places with a pin and then pushing it down. Even without any glue it might stay down on its own once you get the air out. If you notice a bump due to a pice of dirt trapped under the foil, you can just carefully cut around it and remove it (just becareful not to tear up the surrounding foil)

The problem could also be caused by tin foil sticking out around the edges. There should be no foil whatsoever outside of the cardboard strips. Make sure you completely remove it all from the .75" square you cut out of the corners. You might even want to install a little more tape overhanging the edge after you trim it so that you are absolutely certain there is no exposed foil (not even it's very thin edge that will remain after you trim it.)

Also, as a warning, once you tape down more strips you might not be able to remove them without ripping up the foil, creating more bubbles. That would definately require you to start over with a new step. So if you try to remove the cardboard be very careful. I'd recommed cutting around the tape completely with an exacto knife and carefully peeling it up... dont just rip the tape off.

Sorry I havent gotten around to clearing any of this up on the website... but now that I see someone is actually trying it out i'll have to go put some time into it! For anyone keeping track, last weekend I finally got around to installing x/o buttons on my pad (the kind you buy at radio shack, not full sized diagonal steps) so i'll add instructions on how to install those soon (though it's no different from anyone elses instructions)

Good luck... keep us posted on how it turns out!
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the world's most refined homepad: devout stealth

Almost-finished non-Stealth homepad for sale, just add sensors! see here: http://www.ddrfreak.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=8921579#8921579
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34. PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 9:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks for the clarification, devout.

Its definitely not a problem with foil at the edges/corner, I double-checked that. I'm thinking there might be a slight warp to the sheet metal but I'm not real eager to go try and re-shaping it and possibly make it worse etc. So I'm just gonna (carefully) add another layer of cardboard strips.

BTW, I also added pushbuttons to my pad. I got 4 "mini" pushbuttons from the rat shack (basically just a smaller version of the ones used in riptide pads) and mounted them to the softpad control box which I am going to mount to the front border. (stupid me was not careful with drilling and did crack the plastic a bit on my first attempt, D'oh).

I'll hopefully be able to report back with some results and maybe some pix in a few days. Been working a lot lately (including right now E13.gif )but trying to carve out little blocks of time to mess around with the pad.

KO
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35. PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It almost seems to me like the Stealth pad could function as a cheap, effective completely-metal pad, as long as you created 9 metal-covered blocks instead of only four.

You could even shim the corner and centre pieces up a bit to create recessed pads . . . couldn't you?

Not saying that I don't like this design, far from it . . . but it seems like you may have hit on the cheap yet effective hard pad design, one step short of acrylic w/ corner brackets.
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36. PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Off the top of my head, there's a few good reasons I came up with to *not* make this pad design all-metal.
1) chance of metal panels connecting each other and completing circuits you dont want completed
2) not enough "tactile" difference, ie if all the steps feel the same it might make it harder to navigate around
3) adds to the cost and construction time

In other news, I have finished my Stealth pad! No pics yet, coming soon.

For my top arrow that was acting wonky, I actually ended up replacing the sheet metal since I was still getting some sticking even with an extra cardboard layer and that seemed easier than re-doing the epoxying etc. Problem solved, so there mustve been some slight warp w/ the original piece.

Here's some initial impressions:

I LOVE the solid feel of the arrows (lack of wiggling/creaking/squeaking/flexing). They make a solid yet muted thump with each step. However, this different feel and touch vs a "traditional" homepad is requiring some getting used to (loss of corner brackets as reference point, maybe?) One particularly embarrasing "accomplishment" during early testing --- I set an all-time low of 39 boos (yes, 39... I didn't even know you could get that many and still pass) on Flow True Style difficult. Yikes. I sure hope that was "operator error". The eighth-notes into jumps seemed to be one of the main culprits but I'm not really sure what that means, if anything.
On a more positive note , though, (and with a little more practice) I did manage to nail some new high scores on some 6-7 foot supernova experts. No FC or AA yet, still getting some Boos and Goods popping up here and there.

Also , because the pad is so light, it was sliding all over the place. Anyone have tips on getting better grip to carpet (preferably in a non-destructive and non-permanent way)?

ok, thats enuff for now, will report back more later and have some pix

KO
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devout
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37. PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 6:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glad to hear you got it finished! I'm not sure about the 8th note/jump problems... I havent noticed any particular combos where it doesn't work. Though considering everyone has a different playing style and every homepad will be a littler different, I guess they should all have a big "your milage may vary" warning. But keep us posted on how it works out.... hopefully everything will come together.

I'll have to look into finding a good way to stop slipping. I'm pretty light and it's never really been a problem for me (I just recenter the pad every 3 songs or so... never been a problem during a song). But it seems to be a recurring issue, so i'll see what I can do. I have a few ideas but I'll test them out first to make sure there's no carpet damage.

On the topic of making an all metal pad... yes, you could do that, but as noted it's probably not the best idea, and really what's the point? But when it comes down to it, the aroows of most pads are pretty indepenedent of the non-arrow panels, and you can switch them up however you want. If you wanted to, you could use the stealth sensors, glue some arrow graphics on top, and cover it with a thin (1/16") layer of acrylic to create something that looks more like an arcade pad. You could probably even add corner brackets. You would have to be careful making sure everything is wired correctly, since that is a lot of metal to have floating around. Bottom line: try out different things, that's how we get new designs!

In other news, I can finally do respectably well on dynamite rave maniac on speed 4, so hopefully i'll get back up to full speed soon (which i havent done in about 5 years) and I can post some score pics. (Still no videos, i'm not about to buy a camcorder.)
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the world's most refined homepad: devout stealth

Almost-finished non-Stealth homepad for sale, just add sensors! see here: http://www.ddrfreak.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=8921579#8921579
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38. PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2007 5:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have uploaded some pics of my Stealth pad to webshots, here is link
http://entertainment.webshots.com/album/558880230nURzrn

and, here is a thumbnail preview


enjoy E7.gif
KO
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39. PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2007 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

just a quick question about those pads, do you think the steps will last long for heavy weight players (200 to 230 pounds) I fear it could tear the screws or bend down too much the steel sheet and make the contacts permanent after some time, I really like this pad but i am myself around 220 and some of the potential other players are ranging from 175 to 230...

any thoughts on that ?
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